Prevalence of doping in MMA?

[Mashi]

As a noob in the MMA field, I've been trying to slowly familiarize myself in this world. As I watched 'Inside MMA' on HDNET last night, there was that lower bar scrolling on the bottom saying a Chael Sonnen was 'suspended indefinitely' for failing the drug test (can't remember the exact wording).

It's such a disappointment and disgusting to hear about 'great' athletes, whom children look up to, be nothing but deceiving, cheating individuals (i.e. Roger Clemens). Lack of respect to all areas of their respective sport in my opinion. Nonetheless, seeing that news about Mr. Sonnen made me curious and I wondered, how prevalent is taking performance enhancers (PEs) in MMA? Is it a problem/do you think it will become as problematic as in other sports (i.e. football, baseball)?

Again, perhaps my naivety, but I would think with often having to do serious weight management, it's not as 'realistic' for fighters to take PEs? Also, this may be hard to apply on a large population because everyone's personality is different, but, this field utilizes 'martial arts'. Meaning, the cultures whereby these martial arts originated have a very strict expectancy of respect does it not? Something that I'd like to say, may, often be lacking in other sports.

When I see fighters place their hands together and bow, I would view it as a transcendence and acceptance of the values instilled in that art; respect towards your opponent, graciousness and gratitude toward one's mentors. My point is that, with studying arts which foundations are formed with respect, I would think cheating and doping would not be as big of a problem. Alas, am I being too naive? Is MMA as contaminated as in other sports (i.e. baseball, football)?

Any thoughts? Just wanted to get that out because I got curious. Thank you!

[ratichek]

PED are actually very useful for cutting weight etc.  Its one of the reasons they are taken.  Long story short...in PRO sports PED are EVERYWHERE.  I know plenty of pro athletes and their docs and for those who don't know...its just part of competeing at that level in many cases. Far Far more people are taking them than any casual fan wants to realize.  I actually have another approach to the PED issue and that is really that I don't care much.  Sure it woul dbe nice to if things were totally pure but at the same time the questions has to be asked, what is totally pure? where are the lines drawn?  When people say they want a level playing field they need to ask themselves what that actually looks like.  Is a person who is natually very muscular and fast and coordinated on a level playing field when they have much higher levels of Test than other "normal" people do even though its not enhanced?  Is that more level then giving the small weak person some PED's to elevate their bodies natural level to a competitive place?  We have all known the Genetic freaks who are just so fast or so strong and the question needs to be asked What is level??

Or another scenario: as a person ages and their bodies levels of these items change is it a level playing field if they take supplemental drug courses to bring their levels back to where they were 20 years earlier?  Randy Couture was reputed to be taking several courses or therepy including HGH BUT they were prescribed so no one was upset....he was just taking them to level things off...but is it any less or more moral if a person simply obtains them through other means and avoids the govnt approaved methods?  In may cases the issues that we are chasing are ghosts.  Im not advocating the use of PED's but I certainly know that the issue is far more complicated than most would like to make it.  Its more than just is a person "using " something. 

[Barry]

I think this is something that goes unmemtioned, at least on the local scene. Are guys juicing...yep! Are guys taking PED's...yep! Is everyone doing it? No.

I've even heard about guys taking other "stimulants" as well.

Bottom line, MMA is no different than any other sport and MMA athletes are no different than any other athlete. Some (not all but some) will do anything, including cheat, to gain an advantage.

[Mashi]

@ratichek

Thanks for your input!

I think people can try to justify just about any situation in order to bend it towards one favor if felt pushed/pressured/desperate etc. I would view a 'level' playing field where people would follow the rules that are established. If deemed medically necessary for a person to take medication and it doesn't go against the rules, that's fine. This would leave the responsibility to the doctor who writes the prescription (i.e. deals the med for money). That's another whole can of worms I guess.

Regarding biological differences, if one had a greater predisposition to build muscle, hand-eye coordination, reflexes than another, then I don't think that can be helped. Some marathon runners are born with a higher ratio of fast/slow twitch muscle fibers than others. Can't be helped.  If it comes down to measuring testosterone or any other steroid/hormone in the body, that'd be pretty complicated albeit damn cool (basal levels, how much is synthesized)!  But if it was soo important for fighting on an equal level, perhaps that would be something seen in the future. Of course there's the feasibility issue and how important is it really to have the same circulating amount. Plus, what if it's not really not steroids that make one a better fighter? What if it was a combination of other hormones making a fighter better than another? If a person's range is in the normal range where you're not having any negative impact on the functioning of your body, then I don't see one as needing 'more'.

Some people would need to put 2x, 3x the amount of energy studying to pass an exam and still not do as well as another. In no way would I think it be right for at student to bring in a cheat sheet because, say they would deem themselves having less ability to remember information.

I guess I just don't see it as 'more than someone just 'using' something'. =) We can agree to disagree.

@Barry 

You're right, some people would do anything to win. The funny thing is, and sad for them, even if they do cheat, it won't guarantee a win/success.
 
Cheating is cheating!

[CGardner]

I think we need some Harrison Bergeron going on.  It's not fair that I don't like to workout as hard as others. 
I never really thought about enhancing drugs until I saw Bigger, Faster, Stronger, but I'm holding out for bionics/stem cells.  I would use one of those Floyd Landis altitude chamber things.  I do wish TDLR would do some random testing to keep people honest add some risk to those that "cheat".

[CGardner]

I guess to answer the question more directly if think its fairly common at high levels of mma (30%).  I think its used more as a recovery tool rather than a fight night enhancer.

[Mashi]

I think we need some Harrison Bergeron going on. 

I never heard of "Harrison Bergeron" before; I read the plot summary on Wiki and sounds pretty cool, albeit twisted. If this really happened, I wonder if people would know about the handicaps placed on other people? For instance, if the handicaps were small chips implanted under the skin. It would be better if it wasn't known eh? People could become jealous of the 'multi-handicap' person versus the.. 'one or two handi-capped'. Unless they are in a world where no one knows or have their emotions suppressed like the movie Equilibrium. Interesting concept though!

Maybe if a lot of people pushed to have random testing done, it can be implemented?

Thank you for your feedback CGardner!

[CGardner]

They zap you so you can't make the association of more handicaps the better.  It seems that if someone needs extra supplements on the local level, then they will never make it in the big shows.  I'm not sure TDLR has the funds to run regular tests, it would be cheaper to start the rumor.  I hear TDLR will be random testing half the fighters for the next show. 

[Mashi]

  I hear TDLR will be random testing half the fighters for the next show. 

   

[ratichek]

Yes everyone in our FAIR state knows there is no testing.  But it does hinder those when they go to the next level and are used to being able to do what they want.    And i agree with Greg Cardener  its usually more a weight cutting tool or a recovery agent not used the same was as in some other sports.  For every befefit there is a netgative and many guys don't realize it. 

Interesting that you guys mention starting a RUMOR about drug testing...that may actualy save some buts.  While the drug testing that is being planned isn't something that is comming from the State body the intentions to drug test in tex have been made clear after the last congressional hearing.  Recognizing tex as a hotspot and wanting to "come down" on that issue is why this particular federal issue is being pushed forward in 2011.  Good news: testing will be here.  Bad news: no one will know when including the commish since it will be conducted more as a sting and actually take people to jail and arrest.  So theres a good and bad.  Fight cards might get thinned out quick suddenly...something to think about.

[4ozFighter]

in nevada (las vegas) the winner of every fight is subject to a drug tes,t i was surprised as to how many people fail their test including our opponent. it was also brought to my attention that the guys with staff wristbands on in the back who didnt seem to have any reason for being their were actually there in case somebody needed some clean pee. it was a sad eye opener for me since it has always been the purity of this sport that i have loved most.

[Barry]

in nevada (las vegas) the winner of every fight is subject to a drug tes,t i was surprised as to how many people fail their test including our opponent. it was also brought to my attention that the guys with staff wristbands on in the back who didnt seem to have any reason for being their were actually there in case somebody needed some clean pee. it was a sad eye opener for me since it has always been the purity of this sport that i have loved most.

Damn. That does suck to hear.

[rasta420]

What substances, besides test and hgh, are you considering PEDs? Diaz had his win over Gomi taken from him because he had high levels of THC. KJ Noons uses bottled oxygen between rounds. That prevents lactic acid build up therefore increasing his ability to perform. And its hard to get a base level of test to compare. I am 38 so my testostorone levels are not going to be the same as 19-20 year old. But i also workout a lot so they will be higher than the average person my age. Plus genetics play a huge factor in your testostorone levels.

[Mashi]

KJ Noons uses bottled oxygen between rounds. That prevents lactic acid build up therefore increasing his ability to perform.

I didn't do homework so I'm just going to ask (and putting my 2 cents from what I remember). How is bottled oxygen going to help prevent lactic acid build up? I see how oxygen is required for aerobic respiration, and oxygen is carried around by red blood cells. The component which holds oxygen is heme in hemoglobin. Blood is being constantly circulated and with increased activity, I understand the heart is pumping at a much higher rate and thus you're breathing harder.

I just want to know HOW this would work. If I remember correctly, there's a set limit heme can carry for oxygen. If you give more, maybe he can recover faster (does he?) but prevent lactic acid build up?

I'm just curious... 

[Mashi]

Okay, article from Journal of the American Medical Association for those interested: http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/262/2/227.full.pdf+html

Their conclusion "100% oxygen when applied for brief periods during recovery from exhaustive exercise could not be shown to hasten recovery or improve subsequent exercise performance."

Might be disappointing to some, but, alas might save some fighters money. Although, perhaps a placebo effect is in the works. Also, this study was conducted on soccer athletes, so again, different case may result in a different scenario. Maybe people are being taken advantage by the study results that show improvement taking the oxygen *during* activity. Not recovery/rest time.